More on the Kip B1 sauna heater

You would think that replacing an old sauna heater with a new one would be a simple task, pop out the old and pop in the new. But, not these days, apparently, not even for a skilled professional like me. I’ve installed a few in my day and have been around saunas all my life. Considering I’m 67, that’s a long time. The Harvia Kip B1 has had more problems than I bargained for when I bought it in November 2016. There are plenty of U.L regulations involved with these heaters than there were in the past so that the novice and new users won’t do something stupid and end up killing themselves. But sometimes, things can just go overboard.

I like my saunas between 180 – 190F which even for most Finns like me is a pretty comfortable zone although there are those that like it much hotter. The Kip B1 just couldn’t get past the 170F without the heat sensor kicking the unit off. There is a high temperature limit control which shuts the unit down if it senses that it’s too hot in the room. But of course the limit control is set to a much lower temperature which may be suited for the novice. There is nothing mentioned about this in the installation guide, which seems to be lacking quite a bit of other important detail. An addendum has been added to the paperwork as a separate updated installation guide, which also leaves out important information i.e. heater calibration. Apparently the calibration controls the temperature of the sensor; when to shut the unit off, should there be a problem.

Another problem I was and still am having with is the timer mechanism. It’s inaccurate and shuts off at various times, but on average, right around the forty – five minute mark. Okay, I suppose that I can work around that but when the time lapses after the second hour (the hour on the timer, not real time), the high temperature sensor switch shuts the unit off tripping the reset button. I contacted the folks where I purchased the unit from (Almost Heaven Saunas) and rather than telling me straight out that the unit needs to be calibrated for my specific use, they had me move the sensor probe to various different spots on the side wall of the installed unit to see if that would make a difference. Nope! It kept doing the same thing, tripping the high limit control switch. The temperature sensor probe is mounted on the wall using a metal sensor housing which is nothing like the installation manual shows. Anyone with a half a brain knows that any metallic object in a sauna is going to get hot, hot enough where it can cause severe burns if touched. Just by putting one’s hand near a metallic object you can feel the heat radiating from the object. Common sense tells me that if the heat temp sensor is mounted into a closed metal housing, it’s going to get mighty hot inside the housing giving the sensor a wrong temp reading and consequently shutting down.

The warranty states that the user under any circumstances is not to change or deviate from the installation manual. If this has been done, the warranty becomes null and void. Therefore, I had to play their game until I was told otherwise in making changes. It wasn’t until a few months went by, frustrated as hell, ready to file a discrepancy complaint with my credit card company; they finally told me that I needed to re-calibrate the temp control unit inside the heater. This was to be done by a qualified licensed electrician which would have cost me plenty for them to come out. Because I had been a remodeling contractor, I was allowed to make the calibrations myself.

Re-calibrating was a fairly easy and straight forward process except for an arthritic old man lying on the floor working in cramped position trying to get to the control unit from underside of the mounted heater with about 7” to work with. Once I finally got to the unit, I followed instructions to the letter, making sure that it was done correctly and then putting everything back the same way that it was. I’m currently testing the heater as I write this and already had to go in and reset the limit control as it shut the unit off at 180F. However, the unit did come back on; where otherwise I would have had to wait until it cooled down totally. I thought, since I had the sauna fired up, I would go ahead and use it rather than wasting all of that heat and energy. After resetting the limit switch and waiting about five to ten minutes, it was nice and toasty at 197F and just turned the control knob off rather than seeing if it went to 200F. I wasn’t interested in getting it that hot but I was curious to see whether the limit switch would pop off again. As long as I got it above my comfort zone, worked for me and left it at that.

Obviously, the limit switch should not have gone off and there are still problems with the F***en thing and am not done with it yet, but I am headed in the right direction. It’s time to contact the wonderful folks at Almost Heaven Saunas again to see what more B.S. is involved as if I didn’t already know. Like I said, warranty crap, got to follow the game, makes them feel more important.  I just cannot believe the stupidity in the design of this heater nor can I believe that this is an actual Finnish manufactured product. If Harvia tried selling this piece of junk in Finland as it is, here in the US, they would be laughed out of business. As a matter of fact, after talking with a relative in Finland, I was told that Harvia has a bad reputation there as people think that their saunas are junk! They too can't even get a decent löyly from their units.

So I got a hold of the folks at Almost Heaven Saunas and once again I was directed over to their tech guy at their factory here in the US out east. He had me send him some more pics and then told me he’d contact me. Nope not to this day! I had a suspicious feeling that he would just blow me off and sure enough he did. Figures! I also had a feeling why the reset switch would pop at a certain temperature but wanted confirmation from these so called experts and an okay to make the necessary adjustment. Well…at this point I just figured the hell with it! I’m tired of screwing around and just take care of it anyway. Today, I used my sauna without any problems. My biggest complaint is that there is not enough of löylyä. That’s a Finnish term for the event that happens after throwing some water on to the rocks. It's a shot of hot air coming at you after throwing water on the rocks. This event only changes the way it feels in the sauna and not the actual temperature as one might think. To achieve the proper amount of löylyä you need to throw a bit more water on the rocks than what they tell you in the manual. Because the elements are so close to the top of the heater and following the instructions of placing the rocks 2 inches below the rock cover rather than placing the rocks 2 inches above the elements like all other manufacturers tell you, this does not give you enough space to entirely cover the tops of the elements as per instructions. Therefore, I’m stuck with throwing a few ounces versus cups of water on the rocks which has little or no effect in creating the löyly. That too will be taken care of very soon.

Jan 17,2017.

So the tech guy from Almost Heaven Saunas finally decides to give me a call. He wanted me to move the sensor around. I guess since they have no answers theirs is to move the sensor around. I told him that I've already done that from previous instructions. I also brought up the question regarding the placement of the sauna rocks and its problem with löyly. Interestingly, for an expert he had no answers.

March 16, 2017

I finally have my sauna working as it should for now, maybe and average around 190°F. The thing shuts off at 192°F. I suppose that I can live with that. I and other Finns I know with the same heater, feel that this unit is a piece of crap and so is the timer!

May 26, 2017

Since I've had the heater now for 6 months, has time changed my mind about the Kip B sauna heater?

Answer: No it's still a piece of junk with sporadic problems. One time it'll work perfectly and then the next time I'm right back to square one.

Would I recommend it to my friends?

Answer: Not in this lifetime!

What advice do I have for those wanting to buy the Harvia Kip B series heater?

Answer: Buy something else if you can afford it. If you are a beginner sauna user, it's fine for you and will get up to 140F in about an hour. If however you are a seasoned user like myself and absolutely must have this heater, I suggest going with the next size up for better performance. Although the major components are made by Harvia, I'm willing to bet that a lot of the U.L safety controls, timer/thermostat and switches aren't and rob power from the heating elements. I'm also willing to bet that these heaters are not, let me repeat that, are not assembled by Harvia in Finland! This size heater (6kw) is supposed to heat up the size of my sauna up to 180F within an hour or so, my old one did. This heater will not and will take a little over 1 1/2 hrs when working as it should. Other times 2+ hours if I'm lucky.

Before I purchased the Harvia Kip B sauna heater, I always looked forward to using my sauna. These days, I reluctantly turn it on wondering what's going to go wrong with the unit today. This is wrong and should never happen. The sauna experience should be an enjoyable one not one with constant intricacies!

Harvia’s KIP-60-B1 Sauna Heater from Almost Heaven Saunas

My Review of Harvia’s KIP-60-B1 Sauna Heater from Almost Heaven Saunas.

As a first generation Finn, I take my saunas very seriously. I’ve been around saunas all my life and built several from scratch. None have been from a kit. I had an old Sears’s sauna heater where the heating elements had gone out after about forty years of service. It too was a replacement from an earlier heater that had an external control rather than one on the unit. It was impossible to replace all three elements as only two were available so I had to replace the entire unit with the same size; 6kw, 240v single phase heater. I’m retired and living on a fixed income, so I had to follow my budget and decided to go with the KIP-60-B1. According to the info on Almost Heaven Saunas web site it seemed to be a perfect replacement so I purchased it November 6, 2016. I received it within a few days and had it hooked up by the 12^th. Nothing really matched my old set up as it was originally mounted to a concrete wall, not even the electrical hook up was in the same location but it was no big deal for me as a retired kitchen and bath re-modeler always expecting the unexpected during a job. Keep in mind that warranties begin on the date of purchase and not on the date of installation. So if it takes two weeks to get to your house and then another two weeks before you install it, you already lost four weeks of your warranty.

I had replaced some of my old igneous stones earlier in the year which I had purchased specifically for saunas. You can’t use just any old stones because the heat and water will make soft stones explode. It’s very important to make sure that you have the right hard stones suitable for sauna heaters whether electric or otherwise. That being said, I didn’t need to purchase stones for the heater and used the new ones I had recently acquired. I also had some which I had picked up from Lake Superior shores on a earlier trip. They were perfect size and just the right kind of stones that works well with sauna heaters. I installed the purchased stones loosely in place as directed in the installation booklet and had plenty of stones left over.

The capacity for stones was smaller than what I had. The entire unit was actually smaller than my original. I figured that it was more efficient and as long as the kw size was the same, there shouldn’t be a problem. After getting the heater all set up it was time to fire it up for the first time and burn off the protective coating off the elements as per directions. Things went well and after about a half hour or so the unit shut off. It was now ready for use. The next day which was my normal day for a sauna, I fired it up and within about an hour it was already up to 140° F. I like my saunas between 180° -190° F so I fired it up again for another hour but the heater shuts down around 170°F. My original heater would have gotten it up to the 190° F mark according to my new thermostat purchased last summer, running with 1 elements (2 were burned out) in about an hour and a half.

I use my sauna once a week. Today’s date is, December 5, 2016 and have only used it a few times. It still won’t heat my sauna to the temp I want. The maximum I get out of it after running it for two hours is about 170° F. My sauna room is only 194 cubic feet and a 6 kw heater is more than enough to heat up that size considering the max for the unit is about 300 cu.ft. Theoretically it should have heated it up to 190°F within an hour. To get it higher, I need to turn the unit on again. After doing some study of the unit running time, I find that the elements are on for only a short while and not the full hour as one would expect. All other heaters I’ve installed have worked for an entire hour. Yes, the heat control thermostat is set to max and the timer has been tried several different ways making sure that it is on and working for an entire hour. If the timer is running at 60hz, it should run for an entire hour however, if it's only a 50 hz timer, about 45 minutes is all one is to expect even though it has a 60 minute timer. I find the quality of the rock guard less than satisfactory as it is already showing areas of wear even though the unit has only been used a few times. If I take some very fine steel wool and rub the spots on the guard, it will look new again.

As a serous sauna user, I cannot recommend this heater for other experienced users. It's Harvia's low end unit and as far as I'm concerned a piece of junk not worth the money they ask for. As for beginners not looking for the usual Finnish quality one would expect with other heaters, it may work out for you, after all the price is at the low end of all the heaters I've researched.

 Up date: December 20, 2016

I've contacted Almost Heaven Saunas where they have been trying to resolve the issue and have been co-operative. Apparently I'm not the only one with the same problem. I've been having to move the sensor probe in different spots on my wood wall making more holes than Swiss cheese. I even talked with the tech guy at the factory and the conclusion was made that the timer was faulty. A new one would be sent out once they get some in stock, however, I don't think that it's going to happen. As of yet, I've received nothing from them.

My recent problem has been that the high limit control kicks off the unit and trips the breaker at the sub panel once it gets to about 170°F. I contacted Almost Heaven Saunas to tell them about the new issue and once again I've been asked to move the sensor probe leaving it exposed contradicting their installation manual, another joke leaving out some important details. When I get more issues or results, I will post them right here until this thing gets resolved. In the meantime, if you are looking for a heater spend a few extra bucks if you can afford it and don't buy a Harvia, it's not worth the head aches!

KIP-60-B1 installed

KIP-60-B1 installed in my sauna

KIP-60-B1

new sauna thermometer

a sauna door I built from cedar

my old Sears 6Kw heater I had to replace

Update: Dec.24,2016

Finally after 6 weeks of nonsense, I got the sauna to the temperature I was seeking, 190°F. I ended up moving sensor over another 12", leaving the cover off, exposing the sensor and installing it horizontally instead of vertically. The timer made by Hanko is garbage and used by just about all other sauna heater companies here in North America. Apparently, the timers work off an electric motor and is not accurate. Their hour is just under 50 minutes instead of 60 minutes stated on the timer and the manual. A timer running off a 60Hz motor runs for 60 minutes while only 50 minutes on a 50Hz. With that being said, these timers, at least the one on mine, is the wrong one used here in the US. Since the timer is off approx 10 minutes each hour and you pre set the timer to turn on the sauna 8 hours in advance, the heater will kick on a lot earlier (1:20) before you anticipated and therefore, well, you figure it out.

new position of the sensor

I moved the sensor so that it is 24" from the heater and 20" from the ceiling horizontal and left off the cover. The sensor above is an old one from an external control unit from the very first heater...it was easier just to leave it.

For more on the Kip B1 Sauna heater can be found here: More on the Kip B-1